I figure instead of trying to integrate them into one of my blog entries and look like I came up with these thoughts myself, that I’d glean from them and quote a few samplings. Trust me, I know this looks long, but it’s a fraction of the whole thread! This is the first time a message board has been so impacting on me that I needed to copy things from it to post here. The reason I post here is because the discussion is long, and only alumni of FIRE and BRSM can access it. All quotes have remained anonymous, except for one I wrote–it is in red font.
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“I am sure you would agree that we wouldn’t watch TV or a movie if it would not fill something on the inside of us. (You can’t convince me that you would stare into a box for over an hour at a time if there is nothing to it!) Spend an hour in the manifest presence of God and you will not get up from your knees to watch television. Our daily lives are filled with choices and I believe it’s true that we only have as much of God as we really want to and are willing to give up and surrender.”
We have strayed so far from the standards of the revivalists of old. William Booth said, “The greatness of a man’s power is the measure of his surrender.” And we wonder why we can’t find God in our churches, in our homes, and in our lives. Help us, Jesus!!”
“We have very cheesy “Christian movies” coming out in secular theatres and really not making very much of an eternal impact at all.
What is my point? Why can’t we be creative and be innovators in every area instead of always copying the world in everything we do and then trying to justify it?
If you watch a movie – then you watch a movie – if you read a book, get something good out of it then. I believe the bottom line is when these things begin to draw us AWAY FROM THE LORD – and when they become the things into which we escape because we cannot come into the presence of God… THEN it becomes a problem.
ALL things are permissible — but not all things are beneficial. Can someone go to a movie – NOT be in sin, enjoy that movie – feel touched because it is a clean love story or romance and have something in their heart awakened – or challenged – etc? ABSOLUTELY. But it is a problem and a sin when these forms of entertainment – be it movies, music, fiction – whatever — when that becomes our REALITY – and CONSUMES who we are and CHANGES our walk with the Lord and our witness to others – THEN it becomes a sin. Is that entertainment beneficial…. well, this is why GOD is judge and the Holy Spirit the one who convicts us if we ware sensitive to hear his voice….”
“I personally think that if we were busy getting tons of people saved and discipling people, and building community, healing the sick and doing the works of God we would strangely be too busy to probably sit in front of any movies benign or not.
If some massive revival broke out that drawfed the B’ville revival and people were getting saved and healed all over, I dare say that we would have time for much entertainment at all. We can’t take certain movie scenes and tv shows to heaven, but we can take the works that we did.
The problem is that we have TOO MUCH idle time. We are an entertainment generation whether we love Jesus or not. So I think the biggest accomplishment for young Christians is to be able to fast media… turn all the electronics off and FOCUS on God and what’s important. It’s hard, but that seems our biggest problem is how we’ve been fed so much entertainment.”
“Matt 6:22-23
22“The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
Matt 7:3-5.
3“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
1 Cor 10:23-25,29 (really chapters 8-10, but that is too much to include here, and these chapters can be used in several different ways to different people’s advantages)
23“Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.”… For why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience?
Matt 6:9
“This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
Exodus 20:7
“You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
Romans 2:24
As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
Isaiah 48:11
For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another.
2 Cor 5:9-10
So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
John 8:29
The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.”
It’s been said on these boards if it has sex, nudity, violence, and cussing, and so forth–these things make programs inappropriate and unwatchable by some peoples’ convictions. I respect and understand that. Now how about a few steps further; What about antichrist attitudes or programs that are heavily influenced by the spirit of this age, but have none of the things from the generally accepted “list” of things not to watch a movie because of. Sidestep the whole wasting your time component.
I remember it being said that Smith Wigglesworth wouldn’t allow newspapers even into his home, and if visitors brought them, he’d have them be left on his porch or at the front door, but not passing the threshold! Newspapers can be clean per se, but I was mesmerized by this account because of the purity it demonstrated about his character, and how careful he was to not read anything other than the Bible, and we know how mightily Wigglesworth was used of God in healing and miracles.
For a personal example, I was watching a show often as I could called Survivor. Briefly for the benefit of those not familiar with it, it’s a greed based show basically. A reality show where 16 or 18 people are stranded in a remote island or tropical setting, divided into two tribes, and competing against each other for rewards (such as tools necessary for their survival) and “immunity challenges” (the losing team votes off one of their tribe members). When the two tribes become small enough, they merge into one, and the challenges become more personal, resulting in the cast being wittled down, and the last man standing winnning a million dollars. This show has been a hit for the last few years and is based entirely on selfishness and greed, and the main way to propel yourself forward is to deceive people into thinking they can trust you, and not vote for you to be voted out of the game, and so forth, and one season I’m told that the winner of this game was a Christian woman!
So for the first time in two or three years, I began watching another season of this, and felt the Lord clearly ask me “Is it ok to steal, or cheat, or backstab people for your own gain?” and I obviously responded ‘no, of course not’, and He told me “Then why would you watch other people do it?” and I knew this was in reference to this show (my idol–if I wasn’t going to be home when it was on, I’d tape it–it was getting what for ME is out of control TV addiction I guess you could say). There was no nudity, or sexuality, or swearing (it’s a primtime network show), no violence that I can recollect. Then, that week while reading The Message Bible, I came across some renderings of Proverbs:
Make it to the top by lying and cheating, get paid with smoke and a promotion –to death (21:5)
God guards knowledge with a passion, but he’ll have nothing to do with deception (22:12)
So my point, using a personal example is that even if we have programs that filter out bad things like cussing or nudity, do we still want to pour in the *concepts* that are being poured forth through a TV show or a movie? Even if a TV filter gets rid of those things, are we still being affected on a spiritual level negatively by what the spirit of this age is promoting through those mediums? I even forsook a popular Canadian sketch comedy show, because though ‘clean’, when the Passion came out they did a movie review skit of a nun having a difficult time describing the movie because she was too distracted by lusting after a picture of Mel Gibson. The spirit behind the humor was not compatible with my walk with God after seeing that, and I didn’t want to participate in it as a spectator anymore.
In reply to Steve:
I have a no tolerance stand when it comes to cussing, sex, violence etc. in films (not to say I have never seen any but I turn it off when it happens) but you make a good point & one I agree with. People (Christians) have recommended movies to me in the past that while I was watching them I was wondering what in the World they were thinking to tell me I should see this… I can not see why I would or should entertain myself with movies etc. that are full of ungodly behavior. If the theme of the movie is all about telling lies & getting away with it & I am having a great time & laughing as if it is good behavior or a way I would act… Why entertain yourself with behavior that goes against what you stand for or more importantly what the Word says. If I am going to preach/teach people the Word & instruct them & help them to not live certain lifestyles but then I will entertain myself with that same behavior doesn’t that seem to be hypocritical or at the very least confusing to the people you are being an example to?
“God did speak through a donkey. Who was He speaking to? An evil prophet, who was to speak a false word agaist the people of God. Anywhere else in the word I see angels, visions, even God Himself. So if there is an evil prophet, let him hear from an ass. As for the people of God let us cast off the ways and dope of this world. Lets be revolutionary and say no to compromise, That’s what we are talking about here. We feed our flesh and bow down the the gods of entertanment and filth. “We will fight to the death, Worthless idols we detest.” We are called to so much more. “True religion is to serve the orphan and the widow, and to stay unstained from the filth of the world.” What ever is pure” I did see the first Matrix I repented for the evil and for the time I spent. Lets be untouched. We can relate to this world….or we can change it through the cross”
“That’s one reason why the church is so powerless today. On one side we got the dead, do nothing Christians on the other extreme we have people trying to be so “relevant” that they end up being more worldly minded than heavenly good.
Let’s renounce this world’s poison. The persecuted brothers and sisters in China seem to get what they need from God with no Matrix, no Braveheart or whatever movie dope. Imagine that… actually being able to hear the Spirit of God without all the tainting from things that are blantantly from the spirit of this age. Satan’s duping and drugging the church in all manner of ways. Maybe if we prayed and sought the Lord more and were in more true fellowship with one another, we wouldn’t need the world’s subsitutes for “truth”. “
“Let me add a little different spin on the topic. Please don’t stone me or assume that I am coming at this from a certain vantage point, try to see where I am coming from. I would not deny the fact that God could have legitimately spoken through the Matrix, what I would say is that this fact in and of itself is not enough to show that it was okay to see the movie, take this example.
We all know the story of Jonah, God told Jonah to go to Ninevah, but he didn’t want to, so he disobeyed God and got on a ship going the opposite direction. While on the ship a storm came and it came to light that it was Jonah’s fault. Therefore the crew threw him overboard, and at the sight of it they worshipped God. Most likely they did not get “saved”, but in the least they learned something about God, and undoubtebly Jonah learned something about God.
So in this story, through Jonah’s disobedience, both he and the crew learned something about God, however this does not mean that it was right for Jonah to disobey God. And so therefore just because you legitimately learn something from an activity, doesn’t mean that it makes it okay, the end doesn’t justify the means automatically.
Now let me clarify what I am and am not saying: I am not saying that if you saw the Matrix that you were disobeying God like Jonah did. What I am saying is that the argument that you learned something from a movie does not prove that it was okay to see. I hope you see my point. My main concern is that all of us think through this issue. Based on the verses I cited earlier, I think that there is a very good case to say that watching a movie such as the Matrix is against God’s will. However, all of you will have to work that out yourself. I also do not think that what movies you watch is the definitive factor in how holy you are. I have not changed my esteem of any of you; from what I have seen of these posts, I can see that everyone on this thread loves God. My main concern is that everyone prayerfully reflects on this issue and come to conclusions.”
“With all the talk about the “Matrix” I rented it. I have to admit, by the end of the movie I was on the floor sobbing uncontrollably as I was overcome with a before unknown overwhelming passion for………pizza. Once again I come with a hint of sarcasm.
Seriously, if we love the world and the things of the world, the love of the Father is not in us. Don’t get me wrong, I watch certain movies and enjoy them. In my heart I know I should be in the word and in prayer. Just call me lazy and lukewarm.
Can God speak through a filthy, wretched, violent, skin-laden, adulterating movie? Sure. He might say, “REPENT”.”
“If we all spent more time and energy on winning souls, then debating what we can get away with, than we would have the whole world saved. I think way to many questions are being asked about … but we really need to ask ourselves the questions like why we are consumed with what we can get away with….Lets be extreme for Jesus! We aren’t going to see a Revolt in society or a Revolution, if we are blending into it.”
The fact that some of you seem to think it’s OK to ingest some poison because the rest of the meal tastes good is certainly a dangerous way to live. Could it be that Hollywood is a little more seductive than some realize? Could it be that the pull of the flesh is more powerful than some are acknowledging? Could it be that backsliding comes in more subtle forms than we tend to recognize?
As for movies like the Matrix, one brother who was closely involved with that very project until it overtly turned AWAY from its gospel roots and mingled in other religious imagery — including Buddhist — told me how he had to make a complete break with the movie (and this is someone who is much more open to good imagery in movies than I am). Yet Christians see it and claim that it carries a powerful gospel message. Beware of counterfeits! Satan can come as an angel of light in lots of different ways…
…Now, if that sounds extreme to you, perhaps it would be healthy to get alone with Jesus and read Ephesians 4:17-5:20 and 2 Cor 6:14-7:1, asking the Lord how movies with profanity, nudity, sexual scenes, or gratuitous violence fit in with the call to “purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God” (2 Cor 7:1) or the exhortation to, “Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children” (Eph 5:1).”
End of discussion for now.
